When Perfectionism Has a Name: A Mom's OCPD Journey

What is it like to be a mom with a mental health diagnosis? 

Listen in to this conversation as Allison Sorensen and host Jackie talk about the challenges and blessings of living life as a mom with five kids and OCP. (not a typo)

Life can throw some curveballs, and having kids can magnify the hard things. Moms and mental health is a top priority for the US Surgeon General because the number of parents who struggle with mental health issues has risen steadily over the last 15 years. Moms are more stressed, feel more alone, less seen and heard, and unsupported. 

This episode will give you some insight into one mom's journey with a mental health diagnosis. 

You are not alone. There is space and grace for you here. 

Transcript

Through conversations and stories with moms just like you, the Whole Motherload helps to build the mindset, skillset, toolset, and the heartset of motherhood to support you in raising happy, healthy, whole, resilient kids.

Today we have Allison Sorenson, a dear friend of mine.

She's the mother of five, four spirited boys, and one vibrant girl.

She has walked a path filled with both joy and challenge, including raising neurodivergent children and navigating her own journey with depression, anxiety, and Lucy Pee Dee, which we're going to talk about today. These experiences have shaped her into a deeply empathetic and mindful parent, slowing down to savor small joys alongside life's struggles. She's passionate about honest conversations on motherhood, mental health, and the realities of raising children with diverse needs in the hopes that every parent feels seen and supported.

Thank you, Allison, for taking time for this. I appreciate you. I'm so excited. I know. This is really good.

Motherhood is its own learning journey. Amen. Something that you have been uniquely challenged with is a mental health diagnosis. That we want to cover today as a beautiful part of your journey because it's helped you to learn to navigate being a mother. And something that I very much admire about you is Even with the challenges that you have faced, your mothering has been a priority, and your kids have the resources that they need, and you're taking time for you to get the help and the resources you need so you can show up for them, for yourself, for your family. And all of those challenges, you're like, Let's go. It's hard, but you're there for it. Let's talk about the diagnosis that you received. How long ago was that? Talk about what it is, and we can go from there.

Okay. Well, I feel like I should give you a little bit of a background. I originally was diagnosed with anxiety depression before I was even married. I had served a mission for my church and came home and got an anxiety depression diagnosis. And at the time, I had had a bunch of other stuff. And my husband was aware of that when we got married. I remember we were dating and it had been a particularly bad day. It was a bad day. And he's like, I'll bring you dinner. And I was like, oh, my gosh, it's so sweet. My sweet boyfriend is going to bring me dinner because I've had a bad day. You read about this in romance. I'm just like, oh, that's so sweet. And he showed up with taco Bell, and I burst into tears. I was like, this is not sweet. Taco bell is the grossest thing. Really? I was like, I can't eat this.

And he didn't And I don't think I said that because you're dating and it's like, you can't just say those things. You're like, Oh. And I just cried and cried and cried. So he was aware that there were some things before we got married.

But I'll come back to the taco Bell thing with my current diagnosis because it's actually a small piece of what actually affects me now. We had been married, gosh, 10, 11 years. Yeah, it was about two years ago that I started this journey. And I There's been a struggle, but I had also... I had done a lot of self-improvement work. I listened to all these people that you see that you're like, Oh, they're successful and amazing. And I was up every morning and I worked out, and I had quiet time to myself, and I did gratitude every day. All the things that you're like, Here's the things that make successful people. I was doing all of that stuff. I was with my kids at a park, and I realized And just as I was sitting there, I was done. It was too much. There had been some events and stuff and some things that had happened right before then, some just arguments and fights with my husband and some other things. And I was just done. It just came to this point where I was like, I'm not doing this anymore. I am too tired.

I am too worn out, and I cannot go any farther. And that's challenges both with my kids and my husband and all that combination of all those things together was just like, I can't do it anymore. And so I messaged a friend and I said, I'm done. I'm ready for trauma therapy. I've had enough, and I knew that's what I needed. It wasn't like I had done other therapy. It's like, when you do enough coaching stuff, I had even coached some people. It was like, no, this isn't working. That's not enough anymore. I need real trauma therapy. I also knew that whatever the mess I was in, the natural instinct was to blame everyone else for my problems. But I also knew in that moment that there was a piece in good coaching. It's like, no, you can change the situation. You're the person who can change. That's the only thing you have control over. But that had failed in so many ways. And I was just like, I've done all the changing. I'm doing all the things. I'm doing all the work. I'm the one up. I'm the one taking care of all this stuff.

So that's when I knew. I was like, no, this isn't just this. I need real trauma therapy because there's no way I'm living another 10 years, the last 10 years. Sure. The last 10 years has been so hard, and I'm so tired, and I'm so worn out. And I don't know what the future holds. I don't know if I'm staying married. I don't know if I'm just going to leave my family completely and disappear off the planet. I don't know.

But there's no way I'm living the next 10 years like I have the previous. And so I was like, if I have the power to change it, I'm going to do whatever it takes to do that. That was what triggered it. And I had I had three different therapists every week for six months before I got a diagnosis.

Okay. Wow.

So it was a long journey even to get a diagnosis. And really, the only reason I think I did is because one of my therapists was more like he was doing his intern stuff. And so he was required to do some very specific questions and stuff through the process, which I had agreed to. It's less expensive sometimes when you get those people in different different things. And I will say, if anyone's looking at therapy, if you have multiple therapists that you're working with, make sure they can all talk and coordinate. So you're not getting conflicting things. That was when they were all coordinating together to It helped me. It wasn't three different people telling me three different things. That would have been really bad. They're all coordinating. So I think that's really the only reason that he ended up giving me a real diagnosis, because otherwise, I don't know that my other therapist probably wouldn't ... We would have just kept treating whatever it was that was coming up. So in that, he said, I remember sitting there, much like I am now, it was a video call, and I was talking, and we're just talking answering questions.

He's asking me questions that I'm answering. It was exactly like this. And he goes, Oh, my gosh, I think I know what it is. And I was like, Okay, because he had to do a diagnosis.

Okay.

And I was Oh, it's OCP. I was like, You mean OCD? Because I have some siblings that have OCD and some tendencies like that in the family. And he's like, No, it's different. Hold on. Ocd, I think people are pretty... We're We're where, we're where, what that is. I was like, What are you talking about? And he's like, No, it's obsessive compulsive personality disorder. And personality disorder hit hard because suddenly it wasn't like... It didn't feel like a disease. It felt like there was really something wrong with me. This is your personality. We talk about, Oh, they have a fun personality, or, Oh, they're this, and that's stuff that you take on. It's like, No, this is part of my personality. This is who I am.

Yeah. Yeah.

And so to suddenly realize you have a personality disorder was really hard.

Sure.

Really hard. It just hit and was like, Oh, okay.

Yeah.

So that took a little bit to process.

Sure. Because I think that for me, I would be like, What does that even mean? Right? Yes, exactly.

What is that? I was like, I haven't heard of that before. Please help me because it sounds like there's something really wrong with me at the core. Yeah, that's what I think I'm hearing you say, for sure.

Yeah.

So he was great talking me through it. So the OCD, which I think most people are familiar with. So OCD is considered an anxiety disorder. And people who experience OCD, the obsessions are intrusive thoughts. So it's the compulsive, the thought of like, Oh, my gosh, I have germs on my hand, or this is dirty, or I hit something on the road and I may have killed somebody. Those are the typical things with OCD, and there's a wide variety. Those, I think, are the things we talk about a lot. I think it's much more broad than that, generally. But they typically know that the thought they're having is crazy. They identify it and say... Especially with treatment, it's like, Oh, I know that this is an obsessive thought. It's not really a thing.

It's irrational. Yeah.

Yes, exactly. They identify that. Is that Okay. So obsessive compulsive personality, the biggest thing of it, and most people don't seek treatment for it or really a diagnosis because the bottom line is that they're doing it the right way. It's There's no anxiety associated with it. It's a personality disorder.

Anxiety isn't actually related with it. It's like, no, this is how successful people do it. This is the right way to do it. This is how it's supposed to be done. This is the best way to do it.

So what you're saying, these are the symptoms of your disorder? Yeah. Okay, so maybe explain that again. So the symptoms of your disorder were manifesting as what?

So the fact that I was getting up at 4: 30 in the morning and going to the gym at 5: 00 AM, it was compulsive, though. It was like, no, if I don't get up at 4: 30 in the morning, then you're a loser. You're a terrible person. Every And not so much just random people, but mostly intimate relationships. It's like, no, the way we do this is the way that you are supposed to live. There's almost like an unbeknownst code in your head for this is how successful people live, and this is who I want to be, and so I'm going to do all these things. So it's like, I was up at 4: 30 in the morning. I'm at the gym at 5: 00, I'm home by 6: 00, I'm reading my scriptures, I'm journaling, I'm doing gratitude. I'm praying, and I'm done by 7: 00 when my kids get up, and then breakfast is already made. It's really rigid. It's incredibly rigid, and there's very little room for error. On what you're allowed, you're quote, unquote, allowed to do.

So then what happens when you don't do those things? If you're not at the gym at the right time or you get home late because of traffic, what happens in those circumstances?

It really increase. The whole day goes off. For me, it just was like, I didn't do it. I'm out of whack, and now it's massive control. So it's extreme controlling of every little tiny thing of all the pieces. So one of the first things my therapist had me do was she's like, there's no wrong way to load a dishwasher right.

And I was like, You're You're like, you're changing my world here.

Actually, there is a really effective way to load a dishwasher. And if you don't load it this way, the dishes don't get cleaned. So sure. But you're wrong, right? That's the 

I have a question about that, though, because it's like, what is the difference between this actual disorder, this personality disorder, and perfectionism? 

Yeah. So I would say the disorder is almost extreme perfectionism in a lot of ways. But there are a few key things that most people at OCPD obsess over. 

So one is schedules and time. So being on time, having a schedule, whatever, which as a mom, If I see this whole personality building over the 10 years before I just broke and cracked, I have five kids. And now I have this obsession with being on time. The curse words, okay? It's not possible. How do you get kids to be on time? And also with that, so another big thing with time and schedule is in work life, which I have worked off and on through being married and having But either way, I was very and naturally driven to just maximize my time. So time is just like, no, you got to maximize the time.

So of course, I'm not leaving the 30 minutes it takes to get your kids in the car and actually move them to that between things. It's literally I would be doing this. And then it's like, we're leaving five minutes after because I'm ready. Why are you guys together? Why haven't you gotten it together?

What's It's your problem. You're three. You should be able to get yourself in the car. We should have five minutes to be able to have it done. All I have to do is put your shoes on and grab a snack and walk out the door. But we all know that takes 30 minutes to do. It doesn't take five. It takes 30. And so the timing and schedules is one of the huge things. Another one is just orderliness, cleanliness in the house and keeping things orderly, which It overlaps with that time thing. So that was one thing I would compulsively clean. And I didn't think it was a compulsion. It's like, no, my house is clean. I went to the car wash every day to clean my car and vacuum it out. Every day.

Every day.

You go to the car wash and you clean it out. So here's the other hard part about the diagnosis and why people don't get it diagnosed often is because everyone loves that. I pull up to school and they're like, your car is so clean. Like, I don't know how you do that. That's amazing.

You're being validated for that.

You're being validated. Yeah. Your house smells so good. It's so clean in here. What mom doesn't want to hear that?

Sure.

Everyone wants to hear that. It's like, yeah, I know. I got it all together. If you tell somebody, I'm waking up at 4: 30 every morning, and I go to the gym for an hour, I do CrossFit, and I do all these things, they're like, oh, my gosh. What? Yeah. That's amazing. So you get a lot of validation because our world appreciates those things. Sure. And so that's really the disorder. It's like, no, all of these things that you become obsessive and compulsive about are viewed by everyone in the world pretty much, as good.

Right.

And you don't have anxiety over it. So you're like, I'm awesome. I am the creme de la creme of the creme.

Until ...

I've got it all together.

But your inside, but the outside view, it's literally like I'm living in a castle. But if you were to come on the inside, it is a freaking fire blazing. It is just you're not happy. You're miserable because you're just constantly trying to achieve something that you can't. There's no way to physically do it. Another one is just a rigidity to rules. So lots of rules, just very... It's like, no, this is how it has to be done. This is how it is. This is how it is. I'm religious and spiritual, and I'm pretty sensitive. So along with all the diagnosis I have, it's great. I'm highly sensitive. Scary movies are really hard for me. Really intense movies or things like that, it just rocks me for days. It's like, oh, it just takes a lot. But my husband And he can watch a scary movie at 11: 00 at night and go to bed, and it's no big deal and sleeps fine. 

And I'm like, what? But it created a lot of tension because before I recognized it, it was like, You're clearly a bad person because good people don't do that a thing. If you were a good person, you would be feeling the ugliness of this.

Or do you know what I mean? For me, it just felt ugly and scary and dark. And if you were a good person, you would feel that, too. And so you're clearly not a good person or doing good things because you're making terrible choices to watch this. And people who are good don't watch these types of things.

Got it. So the judgment that comes from it was also probably overwhelming, maybe, because then how do you stay in a relationship or have a relationship when those judgments are present?

And I think that's the biggest thing if you look and it's like... Because you're like, well, there's actually nothing wrong with someone getting up every morning and going to the gym. Sure. There's really nothing wrong with it, right? Correct. Like you said, well, this seems like normal stuff. Okay. And that, I think for me, was where it really got ugly, was this judgment piece. Because internally, what it looks like, and I think a lot of this, and as I've unpacked it, it's now been two, two and a half years of therapy.

As I've unpacked that, a lot of it was I moved a lot as a child, and I just didn't have a lot of consistency. I was in a different school every year up until high school. And what I was cool and accepted in every school is different. And I was moving states. It wasn't just a different school in the same state or something. I'm moving states and stuff. And so I think part of what created it was, one, just having this highly driven personality to be successful and succeed. But then on top of, okay, well, to be successful in this environment, it looks like this.

And to be successful in this environment, it looks like this. And my brain was constantly picking up new information to say, Okay, if I want to be accepted, I have to do X, Y, and Z. And then in this place, I have to do A, B, C. And in this place, it's L, M, N, O, P. And so you're constantly taking all these things, and you really lose your identity of who you are because you're trying to fit in somewhere else.

Everyone wants to be accepted.

I feel like that is most people. They want to know that they're lovable, that they're loved, that they're connected, that they have that community community, that there's a space for them and that they're welcome there. And if they don't feel that, then they're questioning, Am I enough? Am I good enough?

Am I cool enough? Am I whatever? Fill in the blank enough, right? And so I could totally see that. 

Yeah.

And so then you take this lifetime of things together, all this information that you've collected. And if you have any moral background or code or the Ten Commandments or whatever it is, you layer that on top of it. And so you get all these different layers of things until you boil down to, okay, here are the things that Lisa I know that if I do these, I can feel loved, and I can feel appreciated, and I can feel recognized. I can keep a clean house. Everyone can see that, and they can see that. I can love and take care of my children. That's good. If I'm working out and I'm exercising, I'm taking care of myself and filling my bucket, all these things. But when it just becomes unhealthy, and then you're judging everyone else, you're like, No, I'm doing all the right things. People are like, Your car looks amazing.

How do you keep your car clean? Your house smells so good. Your kids are so great. You're such a great mom. All these things. And so you're like, okay, yeah, I'm doing the thing. I'm doing the thing. I'm getting appreciation or whatever.

And you're following the rules. That was something else you just had mentioned. Following the rules.

Yeah, exactly. I'm following the rules. And it's not just the rules of your religion or the moral code. 

It's also the society. What society says is the rules. Okay.

Or then you get into a whole thing with moms and advice and what the right way to parent is. This is the right way to parent. And this is... Why is moms? We all know, right? The list of advice is like a mountain. And so then you're putting all that on top of it. Like, okay, this is how I have to show up as a mom. This is what it has to look like. I got to take my kids to this or do that, all those things. And so then when you're, quote, unquote, think you're doing all those things, because in my head, with that diagnosis, it was like, Yeah, I'm doing all the things. I'm doing all the things. 

When you didn't do something or something failed that day, it was the worst day ever, and you're melting down in tears, and you're in the bathtub, and you're crying, but you pull it back together the next day, and it's okay because you're holding it together. 

But you also create all these judgments about other people, every single person. I saw that mostly with my husband. We're just very different. I love him to death, and he's the best compliment for me because he's funny and light-hearted and reminds me that I can be funny and light-hearted, and I can have a And it's fun, but fun.

But fun, and it really is one of the things with OCPD is it's like, no, work and rigidity is more important than fun and relationships. And so it really... God put us together, probably just for me to figure this out because he was just like, No, she's just got to figure it out. He just is so fun, and he would give you the shirt off his back. He's like, Yeah, anything anyone needs, I will do it. But I was like, No, you watch scary movies late at night. That's terrible. You're a terrible human. I look at it now, and it's like... I mean, I cried. I apologize so many times. I was just realizing that when you start to come and realize

Oh, I have literally made someone else's life a living hell because I have put so many constraints on this person to not be who they are because I, my myself had put so many constraints on who I was.

Yeah, like masks.

It was like, you have to do. Yes, you have to be this. And it was like I was building. I thought I was building this amazing castle in this beautiful place where I live, but I literally built a prison for myself.

Wow. 

I built a prison, and it got smaller and smaller until I couldn't live anymore.

How do you feel like it affected your kids?

Oh, my poor kids. 

Good thing they're resilient. 

I know. I think about now, so one of my things, which is not one of the typical things for OCP, but with all of that, but it fits, I also got an eating disorder diagnosis, and I can't even remember what it's called. But the disorder itself is like, no, you only eat the right food. And if you don't have the right food, you don't eat it. And so I had all sorts of obsessions over food. I, as a mom, probably the biggest thing that I created for my kids was an eating thing. I'm like, no, you can't. You have dairy, you can't have dairy. You can't have food dice, you can't have sugar, you can't... All of those things. I'm trying to keep my kids away from everything humanly possible except for some fresh veg that I bought and cooked for them or something. 

And so that's probably the biggest thing that's affecting my kids. And my second one who's really rigid for several years was like, Mom, am I too fat? Am This? Or am I like- 

Oh, shoot.

Yeah.

Can I eat this? If I eat this, how much of this can I eat. And he's gotten a lot better that way. But there's still the backlash that I've gotten is they sneak food all the time. I'm cleaning up my garage yesterday, and there's soda cans all over. The seeking and hoarding of food has become a thing that we're still just working through. It's just like, okay, we work through it. Those things. And then I just think they'reo bstinance. With OCD and OCP, They like you to call by a different name so you can identify it separate from yourself until you're ready. So we call her Patricia. Patricia.

Which is your name for your OCP?

For my OCP self. Yes, exactly. 

Got it. 

Yes. And so because they gestated in Patricia, because I did not come to this understanding until after I had all my children, I think she created a lot of rigidity and a lot of just obstinance in them. They're like, No, I don't think so. And so no, every mom here's no, but it is just special. So we're all in recovery now. We're all in recovery together.

Well, what I love about what you have done for yourself is that you didn't run and hide from this diagnosis. You didn't shove it down and say, No, that's not true. That's just a label, and I don't want to be labeled. You took it and you were like, Okay, I want to become better. And so what does this mean for me to be better and heal from this? And how am I going to help my children heal through this? 

I've noticed that you are very in tune and connected to those inspirations as a mom as to what your kids need, and you don't hesitate when you see that they have a need. 

Maybe talk a little bit about how that works for you and how you're seeing that growth in them, coming to terms with and accepting this diagnosis for yourself.

Oh, that's such a big question.

I'm sorry.

No, it's a great question. It's a really good question. I think it is. I think there's two schools of thought on the whole label labeling and diagnosing thing. And because OCD and OCP are the ones where they're like, No, Patricia, you label it outside yourself. I think it's really healthy. I think there's people who take those labels and they become that. They become depression. They become OCP, or you can become ADHD, or whatever those things are. There's so many things now that we diagnose. And I think there's two ways of thought. 

And I like to think of it as like, Look, I do. I want to be the best I can be. And I think some of that, probably the driven personality that I think is probably the root of where OCP comes from. If you have this, you're more light. If you're going to have a disorder, you're going to head that way. I think That helped me a lot because I was driven to become better. It's like, no, this diagnosis isn't going to define me. But what it does do is it actually gives me very clear tools to be able to say, hey, these are the tools that help people deal and manage with this.

Two of the biggest takeaways probably coming out of the diagnosis and understanding was number one, do you care more about relationships and people or being right? And I think that's good advice for anyone because we all want to be right. 

We all want to be right. Who doesn't want to? What husband and wife haven't been like, I'm sorry, what was that you said? Can you say that again? I was right. Thank you. I'll take it. We've all been there. We've all been there. We've all done it, and it feels great. We all own that. But that I come back to a lot, and I come back to that with my kids and recognizing, Okay, look, I probably am right in this situation. My oldest is 12. I probably am right. It's going to cause X, Y, and Z. They're going to create all these problems for themselves. It's going to be this whole thing. And as a mom, I'm going to have to deal with some of the fallout of that, right? 

Yeah.

That's just what it is. But in this moment, when I'm having this discussion with this child, do I want to be right, or do I want them to know that I love them, that I'm here for them, that they can come and talk to me about anything, anytime, anywhere, and I'm going to be able to talk to them about it.

So that is one of the balances I constantly try to think about, and I'm not good at it.

As moms, there will be moments when you're going to do something that you will look and say, Okay, that's not how I wanted to show up. And one thing that I'm working on in my own relationships is a do-over.

When we come back and we're like, Hey, you know what? I would really appreciate it if I could have a do-over on that because I know that that was not how I wanted to show up, and I don't want to treat you that way. You know? And so that's- 

Yes, I love that.

Yes.

I really love that. 

They're probably not used to hearing you say that, so it may be a little foreign. But if you can get in the practice of doing that, they'll be like, Oh, yeah. But could you imagine your kids doing that to each other? Can I have a do-over? Would that be really cool? Modeling that.

Or even with me, right?

Sure. Mom, can I have a do-over?

Yes, exactly. I'm like, Absolutely. Because, of course, you're going to give them a do-over. You're going to give them that do-over. You're going to do that thing. 

I think part of it is in the end, and I think part of it was the OCP and me, I was trying to control an outcome. I I wanted to have a life where it was like, I was successful, whether in my work or writing a book or whatever it was, whatever the thing was. I wanted to be successful in this, and I wanted to have all these kids who just looked so put together, and they were happy at school, and they had this, and we had a great job, and my husband worked and did his thing, and we had a nice house, and we had... Ai could probably generate something really beautiful. Just be like, Show me a happy, perfect family. Whatever, right? Whatever that looks like in your head. 

In the end, it's like, you can't control your kids. If you didn't learn that during potty training, or sleep training, there's like, I have no control. I have zero control over them.

They're going to do whatever it is they're going to do.

And so for me, me, given that, which is just complete chaos, we're literally just paddling through, just keep swimming. It's a river of guys. We're just going to keep going. Because it's a little chaotic.

How do you feel like this diagnosis has actually been a blessing for you?

Oh, I don't have to live in a prison anymore. 

Like, I bake in a dirty kitchen. I cook in a dirty kitchen, and I couldn't do that before. Last night, I- And when you say dirty, you're meaning it's just not pristine now, right?

It's not like you're- Yeah, there's like, dishes in the sink.

There's not mold growing somewhere.

I don't know. There could be mold growing somewhere.

I don't know at this point.

Yeah. But it's not... So not this perfectly clean. You have to get it all the way clean before you can cook or something like that, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

I think previously it was like, I couldn't even go to bed with dishes in the sink. All the dishes had to be in the sink. The dishwasher's got to be running. The laundry needs to be running. There were just things that's like, No, all these things have to happen for my day tomorrow to be a good day. So last night, I was like, No, I just really want to bake cookies. It's 11: 00 at night. I knew, but I ate four different cookies, and I I felt really sick after, and I was like, That was great. It was awesome. I'm really glad I did that.

I'm not going to go to bed.

I'm not going to do it again, but we're good. Not tomorrow night, but you know what? It's exactly what I needed tonight.

Sure. So the blessing then is, like you said, it's just breaking out of that prison and living your life with more freedom and more access. 

Absolutely. Yeah. 

And more access to the real you, it sounds like.

Yeah.

A lot more access to real me, and just to be able to be happy. And that sounds really maybe silly or trite because at the time, being in it, I would have said, Yeah, I'm happy. I'm great. All as well. But looking back into it, I was like, No, I wasn't. I couldn't just sit and read a book. I was constantly in motion. I was constantly having to move or do something or clean this or clean that or whatever. 

And it's like, No, I can sit down and read a book, and it's no big deal.

What would your advice be for someone else in a similar or the same situation as what you've had to experience?

Oh, gosh, that's so hard. I just think everyone's so different. 

I just want to give them a big hug and tell them I love you. It's so hard. It's just so hard start to struggle. 

You're going to be a human, too. 

And you're also, just like you've mentioned, you're also on this growth journey. I think you feel like you could screw up your kids if you do something wrong, or at least that. You know what I mean? I'm going to have lifelong whatever. They're going to be totally screwed up because this is the way I've done things or whatever. It's like, I've created all these problems for my kids because of this. And I I just am like, drop that. No, you haven't. You haven't. You get to be a human and grow and have hard times. You get to have hard times. 

And I think the best thing you can show your kids is that, yeah, mom is sick, and she's having a really hard time, and she's not okay, but she loves you, and she's going to work really hard to figure out what to do. And here's some things that you can do to help me.

Every kid has the mom for them. I feel like that is true because recognizing that the journey that they're on, you're on together, and they're going to experience things because we are imperfect beings. So they will have struggles and challenges. But those are also those things that help them to grow because they're going to work through that healing process of the things that they've experienced because of our choices or the things that we've had to endure, our hard things or weakness or whatever that is. 

And yet that to them, just like you were talking about how your husband is perfect for you because of what he teaches you, right? Your kids have the perfect mom in that sense, that you are the one that is allowing them to have these opportunities for growth, the opportunities to experience some hard things, because life isn't smooth all the time. 

And that's not what we want to model for our kids, because then in the real world, when adulthood hits, how do they cope? That's not teaching resilience. And so I love that it's like, let's just be in it, and acknowledge it, and accept it, and embracing it, in the sense of, this is it.

Let's go. So that's what I feel like I hear you saying in that.

I think it is. In therapy, they call it radical acceptance. And it's radical. It's this radical acceptance. It's like, No, you accept it fully and that fully and truthfully exactly where it is and what you're doing.

Nice.

And that is hard to do because I think there's a lot of emotion surrounding what that might be that you're accepting. There's a lot of emotion and thoughts and all All of that.

I'm broken and I need to accept that I'm broken, and I need to accept that I'm broken. But that's not true because you really are... Your value and your worth does not change.

Yeah. There's a great song Kelly Clarkson. She's lovely, called Broken and Beautiful. And she's like, I'm totally broken, but it's beautiful. This is where I'm at. This is where it is.

Or that Japanese pottery, where it's like the cracks they fill in with gold, right? 

Yes. That That's the thing. Yeah. Yes, exactly.

Exactly. It's that same thing. It's like, no, we're all really pretty broken people, and just try to hold things together and figure them out. And there's days that we have it together, and there's days that we don't. You'd mentioned at the beginning, we all have different experiences, moms, and they have the right mom. We have the right kids, right? To teach us things and to help us. And you know what I mean? It's just a total symbiotic relationship there. 

But I think the amazing thing that binds us all together is that, my boys are fighting over Legos. Do I care about Legos? No, I don't. But I know what it feels like to have somebody break something that belongs to me. I know what it feels like to have somebody take something from me that belongs to me. I know what it feels like to be hurt by somebody. I know what it feels like to be sick. I know what it feels like to get that breakthrough that you're like, Oh, my gosh, this is the greatest day of my life. 

And those emotions and the feelings actually are what connect us together to other people. I don't have to have the exact same experience that somebody else had, but I know what it's like to have a husband out of a job or to not have enough money, or, Holy crap, we had this huge breakthrough. We're going to go on this great vacation, and it's going to be so exciting and all these...

Because I've been able to experience all All those different things and all those different emotions that come with the elated and the happy and the sad and the depressed and the overwhelmed and the sick and the tired, whatever that is. For me, that's what I love being able to talk and connect with other moms or other people. It's like in the end, your experience is unique, but your emotion connects us all together.

Yeah. And you're creating a beautiful A beautiful life of connectedness and learning and growth and becoming. And that's what really matters. And I love that I'm listening to the experiences that you've shared can see that and the process. And when you're in it, that first diagnosis, super hard. But now you can look back and say, you know what? Being diagnosed was actually part of big breakthrough to the healing process that you're on now, that journey to taking you and your family to a better place, and that you've learned how to really help them through the experience is and others.

It's a great thing.

It's awesome.

It's hard as hell, though.

It's super hard.

I'm like, It's hard for anyone. It doesn't matter if you have a diagnosis or not. Sure. When you realize, Crap, I have to change Change or become different. It's like, you face that part of yourself. They're like, I don't want to do this. But that's okay. Don't do it for a little bit. It's like, Okay, just wait. Don't do it for a little bit. At some point, you're going to be like, Okay, it's not worth doing that anymore.

Yeah, for sure. Because that opportunity caused or the thing isn't worth the exchange. 

Yeah, exactly.

It's like, no, be right or have relationships in your life.

Yeah.

Okay. I do love people. I like that. I'll choose people over being right.

Nice. Well, thank you so much for taking time out of your wonderfully busy schedule to have this conversation because I really appreciate the insight and the perspective that you've been able to gain and to share. So thank you so much.

It was delightful. So thank you so much.

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