Of Moms and Miracles: Partnering with the Divine

Motherhood is messy, sacred, and full of moments where we wonder if we’re doing it right. In this episode of The Whole Motherload™, I sit down with my friend Colby Fletcher, mom of four (including triplets!) and a mother to a special needs son, to talk about the power of mothers’ intuition, faith, and building systems that bring peace in the chaos.

Colby shares her journey through infertility, raising multiples, and learning to lean on God when she didn’t know what to do. This conversation is full of wisdom and encouragement for every mom who has ever doubted herself.

If you’ve ever wondered whether you’re “messing up” your kids or wished for a little more confidence in your parenting, this episode will remind you: you’re not doing this alone.

WHAT YOU'LL GET IN THIS EPISODE:

✨ Colby’s childhood revelation that prepared her for infertility

✨ The faith and systems that helped her raise triplets + one

✨ What she learned about trusting her intuition as a mom

✨ How to manage anger and to repair when you fall short

✨ How kids mirror our self-talk — and how that can change us

✨ Colby's take on fearing we’ll “mess up” our kids

✨ The importance of enjoying the journey, even in the chaos

If this episode encouraged you, share it with another mom who could use a reminder to trust her intuition. 

And don’t forget to hit subscribe so you never miss an episode of The Whole Motherload™! Better yet, sign up for our weekly newsletter. (see below)

Some references in this episode: 

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS)

Patriarchal Blessing

Blessing of Healing

Transcript

I am super excited because this is Kolby Fletcher. So she is a wife and mother. She's been married for over 25 years. She's a mother of four and a mother of triplets. Now, I can remember you sent me a picture of yourself when you were pregnant with a triplet, and I was like, you're so tiny. And you had this, you had overalls on. And I was like, oh, my gosh, this is... I don't know. You had a lot of baby in there.

It was pretty I'm crazy looking. And I liked sending that picture out because it was probably the epitome. I think it was like a day or two before I gave birth. So it was like, this is the full expansion of the- It was amazing.

It was amazing. Okay. So you said also that you are the mother of a handicapped and autistic adult son. You've been raised in the LDS Church, and this was an interesting little tidbit. Maybe you could Can you fill us in a little bit. So you said full conversion at 20. What does that mean?

I really resisted all the religion. I mean, as a kid, of course, I was fine with it. You go to church, you sing your songs, and I loved singing time in primary. Loved, loved it. But other than that, I wasn't sure that I was going to continue on with it until I was between 18 and 20. But for sure, at 20, I I've decided, This is for me. This makes me happy. I'm going to live this religion.

Nice. Okay. And I think what's cool is that is really important for our topic today, which is talking about that intuition of a mother and how we can get this direct, almost like a divine download from God in our role and stewardship as mothers.

A hundred %, yeah.

I love that. So let's just talk a little about your mothering journey. Tell us a little bit about your history.

The nutshell of the mothering journey? Yes. Okay. I'm going to actually start at 10 years old because I received a revelation. I want to say at eight, I was like, oh, this is fun. I'm helping my mom with my younger siblings, and it's so much fun to do all these things. But at 10, I received for no reason at all I received a revelation that I would have children. What was it? It was like, you will have children, but you'll struggle to have children, but you'll have children. And I was just like, this makes no sense. I'm 10 years old. I don't even know what infertility is, right? Yeah. But I was like, okay, okay. I mean, I had wanted a Cabbage Patch doll, and I wanted the pre-me Cabbage Patch doll. And that was very important to me that I got the pre-me Cabbage Patch doll. And it's just like, why? I mean, obviously now it's so obvious. But as a 10-year-old, I didn't know. I didn't know what was coming. So it was interesting to me later to look back and go, I was getting messages from my Father in Heaven back then about what my mothering journey was going to be.

It's like, what? So that was the start of it. And then I knew at that point that being a mother would be a big part of my life and something I would do no matter what. That was the path. And so that helped because in the '90s, I want to even say in the late '80s, but in the '90s, the message to all of us was, you need to have a career, and being a mom is lame, and you don't want to do that. That's a waste of your life. And That's just a giveaway choice for your life and pick a career and all this. And I felt a lot of pressure around that all through high school and beyond. And it was just like I had that to lean back on. It's like, no, I got this this message. And I felt this strongly as a young kid and 10 and up. I felt like, oh, I need to learn how to cook. I need to learn how to clean. I would watch my mom do things. I learned how to sew. I learned how to do all the things that I figured would help me as a mother because I had had this impression.

And so then later, when the world was trying to confuse me, it was something I could lean on and fall back to. Then fast forward, I got married, and then we struggled with infertility for six years before we ever even became pregnant, even once. So that was like, okay, I had to lean back on that weird message I received as a 10-year-old that's like, don't worry, This will be something you will mourn, but you will have it. And I was just like, it makes sense, but it also doesn't. I don't get this. How long is this going to last? Any trial, we all feel that way. Like, how long is it going to last? I don't want to do this anymore. And here I am going, well, Should I have done a career move? Should I have been going to college all this time? I mean, six years, I could have gotten a master's degree in something. And I was just angry and like, are you kidding me right now? Why is this happening? And then, of course, it was all the rage in the early 2000s to use fertility clinics. So we got to do that.

And then finally we had our family. When we were engaged, we also received a revelation that we would have four children. We were discussing how many kids we wanted to have, and we were like, two is not near enough, three is an odd number, five just feels like too many. And we were just like, it's perfect, which helped me after I had my triplets because then it's like, you are not done. Don't hang up your hat just yet on this because that four is important because we both felt it at the time we said it and decided it was like, you feel that ding. I don't I don't even know how to explain it, except that it feels like this peaceful settling of this will be. And we both were like, okay, then. We just made a really important decision.

Yeah. But I love that. I love that you can describe bit. It just settled on you. I love that. And that you felt it together, that you both had that impression, that you both were like, okay, we can do this. And you agreed on that. I love that that was how that worked.

My patriarchal blessing told me that my husband and I would see eye to eye on matters. And at the time, I was like, That sounds great. But now I know that's huge, because like you said, here we were agreeing to this thing. We were only engaged. It was going to be seven years before we even had any children. And it just decomplicates things to just have those things decided and equally agreed upon. It's amazing. So then, okay, the biggest thing was once we had our children, I felt like This is all happening very fast and all at once.

Well, three at a time.

Right. It's like, Here's three. And then not even a year and a half later, here's number four and done. And I felt the pressure of, you do not have the luxury of trying things out with your first born. And that didn't really work. Let's do something different with our second. And that was okay. Let's really improve things for number three. There's none of that. All the same time. And so I felt that, I don't want to say urgency, but the importance of really weighing all the decisions I made carefully and getting heavenly help and getting inspiration so that I didn't totally mess up four kids all at once. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, for sure. I think that's probably weird and unique, but it's just like, I had three first borns, basically.

Right.

So If you make a misstep. Yeah.

In the divine downloads that you've received, was there a point where you had the feeling like you weren't doing it alone, so you actually weren't capable of screwing them up because somebody else was in charge? Or does that mortality, the I don't know what I'm doing, is that stronger than this feeling that you have this connection with God?

I would say that depending on the day and where my hormones were at, I felt one or the other stronger. Because when you're feeling good and maybe you just came home from church, you're like, I've got this. The Lord will help me, and I don't have to do this alone. But on a day when you're just like, I can't. This is all on me, and I can't do it, and you're feeling very earthly and very human and very weak that I would get into a despair feeling. I didn't know it as far as I had remembered different talks I had heard at a general conference that who specifically were geared toward mothers, gave us the advice of, You are doing this in partnership with God. You are not doing it alone. These are his children. These are his spirit children. He's interested in their progression and in their progress on the Earth. And so, of course, he's going to help you. So I had that knowledge. But yes, depending on the day and what was going on, I was either really faithful and stalwart, new, new, new, or I was in despair and thought, I can't do this.

Why did he even think I could? This is ridiculous. Crying in the bathroom, that stuff. Right? We all know. We all know that.

So you have your triplets, and one of them is special.

We noticed after a few months that one of my sons was not really progressing as quickly as the other two. And so we were like, Oh, well, whatever. But we knew he had been the one that during the pregnancy, they were in three different amniotic sacs, so one of them had ruptured or leaked. We had gone to our specialist, and he had done some ultrasounds, and we could see that the one baby boy was just scrunched into a ball. He was just scrunched because there wasn't as much room for him to move around. We could compare it to the other two and we could see. And they gave me all the options of what could happen and not really the options of what they could do because there was nothing they could do. We went home. I received a blessing. The cool thing is, I think there's a lot of people who felt this before, but when you get a blessing that's healing in the moment that it's happening, you can feel this neat It feels like cold water is going down your entire... In a circle, basically, all the way through, cross-section, down your entire body.

I could feel that, and it's a healing thing. And so in that moment, The issue was healed. And then within a week or two, the amniotic fluid regenerated. My body did that magically. And when we went back to the doctor to check on it, he said, If I didn't see these other ultrasounds and know this had happened, I would never know it happened because it looks perfect now. Wow. A few weeks in the womb for a baby, that's a long time. And so we were like, there might be something up with this kid. So they actually made the decision to take him out first. That's why he's our first born is because they said, you know what? We got to see what's going on with this kid. So they took him out. Physically, he's so healthy. They checked him out and they were like, he's perfect. And he cried really loud when he came out. And I was like, fabulous. But they were like, right now he's good. But we didn't know, but we could see and tell later. Mentally, there was an issue, and there must have been something developing in his brain at that point.

And so we were aware that something could be, but we didn't know what it was going to be. It was like, roll the dice. It could be anything. And it ended up not being physical. It just ended up all being mental or emotional brain issues. But he was such a happy baby that we didn't have to really start dealing with the stress of all of that until later, I want to say, four, three, four years old, we started to go, Okay, you're a pill. We love you, and you're wild. We need to maybe do something special and different with you. Sure.

You also had this impression from very young that this was going to be something that you would have as a role. When did you first realize that you had that while you were raising your kids?

The first biggest one, I want to say, was with in the first six months of their life. And what happened was I had been watching how they were eating, and they're delayed. So you have to just watch the cues they give you. You can't just go, Okay, you're four months old. Now we do No, it's not like that. They're premature.

I was going to say, how big were they when they were born? We missed that part.

Yeah, they were born at 34 weeks. Yeah, 34 weeks. And so they were... My son, that's typical, was 5 pounds. My daughter was 4. 11 pounds, and my autistic son was 4 pounds, 5 ounces. He was the smallest. So he was little. And so they They were good as far as they just kept growing and developing normally and getting bigger and bigger. But when you start so tiny, it takes you a bit to catch up. And typical kids will catch up by kindergarten or first grade, and people don't even really know. But obviously, that wasn't going to be the case for him. I was just figuring out their eating and all of that. And my husband was saying that you need to feed them food. You need to use a spoon, and they can do it. They can do it. And I just could feel that they weren't ready yet. But I thought, am I just being too protective? Am I being that a mom? And so I tried it, and it was a disaster, and it didn't work. And I knew that they weren't ready. And I knew that it was that intuition that was working.

And it was exciting because I was like, I knew better than him. And I just felt, and that sounds awful, like I'm trying to be in competition with him, but it was more like it was a feeling of empowerment in the fact that I'm their mother, and I knew this, and I'm not going to allow him or anybody else to throw me off the path of what I know I'm receiving as inspiration as their mother, who is privy to this special connection to them and to God for their behalf, et cetera.

So that emotion was, I got this.

Yeah. Confidence.

We make a mistake in a way, but also we can turn that into an opportunity, which it sounds like you did. Where it was like, Okay, I know this. I know that I have this special connection because I am the mother, and so therefore I can trust this going forward. Maybe is that how you would explain it?

Oh, yeah, 100 %. I needed to have that experience experience to come into my own with it. And then, yes, trust it going forward and know that I think I just needed that confidence. Because when you're a new mom, you're like, do I know what I'm doing? And it was right at the beginning there. Yes. I don't necessarily personally know what I'm doing, but I know what I'm doing when it comes to the impressions I'm getting. Yeah.

It sounds like this is when you realized you could really trust that intuition. Yeah. Going forward, did you ever then doubt that intuition?

There was times... I'm trying to think if there's an actual story to any time that I didn't, but I know there was times when I would second guess it, or I would think, Is this just me? Just like you would with any prompting of the spirit is sometimes you argue with it and go, But this, and you make the mistake of not following it. And then you see pretty quickly that it was what it was, and it was what you thought, and you were just doubting yourself because of what? Self-esteem, or hormones, or a bad week, or whatever. Always, always that.

When we were talking about topics, this was something that you felt very strongly about talking about. Why did you feel like this was an important topic for you, specifically?

Yeah, why was it so important to me? And I just think that when we partner with God and we use his guidance and the spirit to help us parent, I basically needed a very simple plan to follow because my life became very complicated very quickly. So it was easier and simpler to just defer to God because there was so much I didn't know. And so my humility and willingness to admit that I didn't know what I was doing, plus my knowledge, plus my love for my children, all created this wonderful situation where I said the right things at the right times, and I was in tune with with when they needed me to talk to them about things, et cetera. It's interesting because it was the simplicity of it that I needed that. I had so many things to do, 24 hours to do it in, and I had like 30 6 hours of things to do. And so I was like, okay, I cannot have some complicated thing where I spend 2 hours praying and an hour on scripture study, and then I didn't have any time to do anything other than take care of these children.

And so it needed It needed to be a spiritual experience all around, all the time. And I found that it was because I just said, okay, it's simply when I'm in trouble and I don't know what to do, I'm just going to pray every time. So simple, right? And it became this thing where even my kids would tell you that they noticed when something was happening that was overwhelming, I would immediately just drop to my knees and say, hey, kids, we got to pray right now. And I wasn't like that growing I wasn't like that as a young adult. It was definitely something that I just really needed for my mothering journey to just have this simple solution to every situation.

Yeah. And then taking that on as your, Hey, you know what? When this is hard, I know this works for me, and it's simple. In the introduction of this podcast I talk about this idea of the three stages of faith applied to motherhood and different things that we encounter in our lives, where there's this simplicity phase, where it's just a very simple faith, right? And then we go through this complexity stage where things get really hard. And that's where we mold and shape and grow because we ask hard questions and we get to the root of our belief or the ground that we're going to stand on, I guess. And when we can get through that stage, then there's this simplicity beyond the complexity. And so what I think I'm hearing you say is that you moved through this complexity by creating a system for you that kept it simple. There was certainly complexity to having three kids at one time and having one of them have special needs. I love that you got to this place where that simplicity beyond the complexity doesn't mean that everything is simple. It's not because there's still those things that are happening that are a struggle But you were able to gain that footing and that ground to stand on that kept you out of slipping back into the complexity fully, I guess.

Is that making sense?

A hundred % sense. That was exactly how I would describe it for sure, because nothing is simple. And so it's like we complicate things, too. And so I just knew that my life in general was complicated, and I needed something to grasp onto, something I could stand on, a sure foundation every day to be standing on to go from with every decision and every situation that arose because it was going to be who knows what. Even today, my son came up with a new situation for me to deal with this morning, and I just am amazed at how motherhood just continues to throw curveballs at us, and we have to seek heavenly help to keep our sanity and to make the right choices.

Sure. Because even just having patience sometimes We can't do that alone. And there is a maturing process. I will say that. Mothering is a maturing process. And as we go through these different stages with each child, really, there is a maturing process that we go through because we're not who we were when they were babies.

No, not even close. I'm okay with that. That's actually a good thing. But yes, not even close.

We've been molded and shaped. And so I love that. So for you, this connection with God, this intuition, this knowing how to handle situations by turning to God, do you feel like those who aren't religious still have this intuition?

Oh, I mean, I believe it's a gift we're given as mothers, period. If you are a mother, you are privy to this gift, and if you seek it out, you can have it. If you seek his help, he will be there because every one of us that's a mother is mothering one of his spirit children. And so no matter what, it's there. I believe that, too. You'd have to reject it, I think. You would have to actively say, I don't want this. Yeah. Why would you say you didn't want it? I don't know.

Well, I think different people may call it different things, but I feel like it's definitely something that mothers have. So there was an interesting experience when I was in a neighborhood, my five kids were little, and there was a girl, she was a single mom, and she was raising this cute little girl. She was a couple down. So her daughter was three, and it was summer, and the music truck, a. K. A. The ice cream truck, would come down her street a couple of times a week, right? My kids did not believe that for very long, that it was a music truck, especially when the This little girl got ice cream every time. And I'm like, No, it didn't last. But it's okay. We tried. The mom came up to me one day and she said, You know, I have a question for you. And because you have so many kids, I figured you would know the answer. And I was like, Okay. And she said, The man in the ice cream truck had asked her daughter to come into the truck with him. And she's like, I told her no. She had sent her out to just get the ice cream, right?

And the guy was like, Hey, come into the truck with me. And she came back to ask her mom, and her mom was like, No. She goes, I felt like I shouldn't let her do that. But was I just overreacting or was that? And I was like, No, actually, that was a good mom moment. She was struggling as a single mom, and so she was second-guessing that intuition and then came to ask me. I mean, it's obvious to us. We're like, No, do not let your child in the ice cream truck with the man, right? But in the moment, she's doubting because she's like, Am I just being oversensitive or overreacting? And I think sometimes the world puts pressure on us as moms, even if we do feel that way where it's like, Yeah, but is that just stupid? Am I just being a dumb? Like, am I being dumb, right? So have you ever had any... I mean, you've talked about some of those doubts, but they're an example that you have of something similar where it's like, even though you've had this intuition and you know it's there, have you had any experiences where you're just like, okay, maybe this isn't right?

I would say that's such a great example of that because she might have even been influenced by her daughter's disappointment in not being able to see the inside of this cool ice cream truck. Sure. Right? Even my kids would make me sometimes doubt because they'd be like, but what about this? And I'm like, I'm just not feeling it. I I can't. I can't let you do that. I'm sorry. And you hate to put worries and fear on your kids or anything, but it's like, no, this isn't me being overprotective. It's me receiving actual information for you. And even I'm struggling so hard trying to figure out a story of when this would have happened to me, and I didn't follow it because I actually was overly protective of my children because, like I said earlier, because I only had one shot, one go, I really was aware of that pressure. But also because I feel like our generation and earlier were really susceptible to being abused and being tricked into things. Like, come into my van. I have puppies. It's like, no, you don't. We all heard the stories, and I was determined that my children would not be in danger, abused around anyone that could hurt them.

I was going to be hyper vigilant on this. And so there's times when maybe it was just me being overly protective. But most of the time, I know it was a warning. This is not a good environment. Don't let them go to this person's house. Sometimes it was just today is not a good day for that. But then another time, they'd ask again, and I'd be like, You know what? Today feels like it's okay. I'm I'm not sure what was going on that other day. And I have so many questions for the afterlife when I get there. I'm going to want to see some film. I'm going to want to see what did I save my child from? I'm just curious. I'm just so intensely curious. I don't need to know now, and I don't need to know in order to follow the promptings, but I'm just curious. But yeah, I wish I could answer that question better because I feel like if I don't have an for it, it looks like I'm saying, I perfectly followed this the entire time I was a mom, and I did not. I know I did not, but there's no specific instance that comes to my head, and so I apologize for that.

No, that's okay, because I think- I know there was times I know there was.

It was a whirlwind.

I'm sure. I think that that may show that when you did have those opportunities and maybe did doubt, it sounds to me like it was a correction. It was something that allowed you an opportunity to do it better the next time, like we all do, right? I feel like when we're in a situation where we've made a choice that we're like, I don't want to do that again because that didn't come out the way I wanted it to, or We are fallible as moms, and so absolutely no mom is going to do this all right.

I might be able to actually answer it with this because I had struggled with my patience and I had struggled with my anger. And so there were times when my emotions got the best of me, and I flew off the handle as we do. And the main thing with that is I had decided that there was no way I could contain this and control this. I was still working on it. I still had deep work to do on myself. And so I had decided that what I would do when this thing would inevitably happen, when I would lose my patience, when I would yell, I decided I would go back back to my children after the fact, explain to them what was really happening with me, that it wasn't their fault, that this was the last straw of all these other straws, and that they can't possibly know what's going on in the mind of an adult or a mother, and that just I wanted them to know that it wasn't them. They did maybe do something crazy or bad or broke a rule or did whatever in the moment because they're kids. They're going to be kids.

But I wanted them to know I messed up. And I also told them, if I'm losing my temper and you're not the one I'm losing my temper on, get out of the room. Get out of my line of fire. You're going to avoid getting wrapped up in whatever's happening if you just get on out of there. And so they started doing that, and it really de-escalated it because it helped with the chaotic. If I'm already angry and already overwhelmed and overstimulated, and then I'm dealing with this kid over here, and then these two start doing something crazy over here, it's like it just mount up and becomes a mountain from a mole hill. And so I was like, you know what? We want to have a peaceful home. Just you can see I'm losing it. Get out of there. Save yourself. Run. And it was crazy because then we came together and talked about it after. And I said, do you guys feel like this is working? And I said, yes. Then when they were even a little older than that, I said, Hey, if you have to tell me something, and you know you messed up, you know I'm going to be not happy.

I want you to say this, Mom, don't get mad. I said, Then stop Stop. Don't say anything. I need 30 seconds to a minute to put my head in a place where I'm like, My child is going to tell me something. I'm glad they're coming to me and telling me something. I need to keep my cool. And then they'll come to me with other things later and throughout our lives. And that was my goal, right? So then I gave them that little tidbit, too. And they tried it, and it worked like a charm. And I said, if you're afraid to tell me something, say, Mom, don't get mad. And then stop. And wait. And then I'll say, Okay, proceed. And then they would tell me. And then we could work on it together instead of it being parent against child. And it helped us become like allies with each other. And I honestly feel like those pieces of wisdom were given to me as well as I just continued to approach God with my problems and with my children and said, You know and I know that I get angry, and we're not to the end of that trial yet, and I haven't fixed that.

So what can I do in the meantime so that this does not ruin my kids' lives or ruin our relationship? I'm weak.

I love I love that in the sense that to be able to have something in place, because what I've learned, there's a book called Atomic Habits. And one of the things that it says in this book is, you don't rise to the level of your goals, you fall to the level of your systems. And so I really like that you created these systems throughout your mothering journey. Okay, we're dealing with something. Let's kneel down and pray. Or, Okay, if I'm getting angry, you leave the room. Or, You know what? If you have something to tell me, start like this. And so you created these systems throughout your life that when there was an emotional strength train or there was something stressful or you know that you were going to have a weak moment, you created these systems that allowed you to be more mature than maybe you would have been.

Yes, true. And then we could have more success.

I love that. To be able to get to a point where it was like, okay, even though this could be this could go sideways, we know what to do. We've created the system.

That's awesome. And I think we needed systems because it was such a complicated thing. We had to be more organized and more on the ball. I got a little taste of what it's like to start with one child when I had my fourth because at first they were on different schedules. And so there was times when the triplets were napping and I had just the one. I thought, it's so easy to just let things slide and be the cool mom when it's just one child. It's like, Oh, you don't really need to go to nap yet. We can just hang out a little longer. I ended up making my life a little more complicated with her because it was easier to let things slide than she had more issues with sleeping and things because I didn't stick to the schedule I had to stick to with the triplets. And I learned that right almost out of the gate there and realized, no, I need to have systems. I need to have a schedule. I need to have ways to keep things organized so that they don't spiral out of control very quickly. By the time she was nine months old, they were all on the same schedule.

And that was just more simple. There's four of them now, and it's like, okay, we all get up at this time. I change all your diapers. We go upstairs, and we all get on our high chairs and have breakfast. I think I already had systems to deal with day to day life. So then to switch over to systems to deal with inevitable problems with all of our personalities and all of our weaknesses, it was just a natural next step. That's awesome.

And so now this is another season of mothering for you. How is this going for you now?

It's so different than it was, and I've had to go, okay, it's going to look different because they're older now. So the triplets are I have 21. And so I have the two typical ones are back from missions. My daughter is going to school, and my son is here working full-time, saving money and deciding what he wants to do for school. And of course, then my handicapped son is just always going to be part of our life here. And my youngest is 19, and she is serving a mission in Missouri right now. So I'm doing that whole thing. And we spent last year and the year before every Sunday, because my daughter was in Australia and my son was in Ethiopia, they're a day ahead of us. So their day they could call home is Monday for them, but Sunday for us. So it was wonderful. Every Sunday, we got to talk to them. And even that, having them far away, but we could talk to them once a week, they would come to us with questions. We would give the best answer we could think of as their parents and also spiritual leaders in their lives.

But then we had to give it to God and say, well, can't be right there with them.

They're across the world.

It's different because I feel like I'm relying on God even more, even though I felt like I was relying on him so much when they were growing. Now, I feel like I'm almost giving all of it over to him. I can pray for them, and they can come to me, and I can give them advice. But in the end, my advice to them is, did you pray about it? What answers have you gotten? Because even I'm always their mom, but even that fact doesn't necessarily give me the right to receive answers for them now that they're grown up. And I have to accept that.

Yeah.

And not try to take over when they come to me with a problem. Right.

And that they're creating their own systems, right? And they're in their different simplicity or complexity or some things. Maybe they're in that simplicity beyond the complexity in certain ways. But recognizing and standing back and seeing that is also very rewarding in some ways, too, right?

Well, you've been doing that longer than me. So you tell me. It has been so far. It has been rewarding because I'm seeing them grow up, and I keep deferring back to my conversion at 20 and going, wow, they're the age I was when I started deciding and realizing that this was how I was going to live in my life. And so I'm really proud of how much more mature they were than me at younger ages. And I can go, you know what? I stopped asking my parents for help and advice, and I started relying more on God and praying and saying, okay, it's me and you. You're going to help me. And not thinking I needed to get every answer from friends, siblings, parents, And so I've encouraged them to do that, too. And so as I'm saying, Leave the nest, leave the nest, it feels sad, but it also feels awesome. It's so those two, that bitter sweet that always comes up in parenthood every moment, that bittersweet, that I love to see them being independent, and I know they're going to make mistakes, and I need to go, don't say anything, just support, just love.

It's different than constantly correcting as a mom of younger, growing kids. I was ding and sharing and trying to give them all the advice and all the knowledge I had, hoping they could do other than me. And now it's like, okay, I've done what I can. And if they come to me, great. But if they don't, it's okay. It's going to be okay. And that's how I talk to myself. It's going to be okay. You'll be okay with this new It's season, this new chapter.

Earlier, when we were talking, you mentioned about not wanting to screw all four of them up. So now they're in their late teens, early 20s. Was that a legitimate fear? Was that a real fear, or is that imagined? Do we screw our kids up when they're little?

That is such a great question. I think it's possible that we can if we don't have their best interest at heart. We can. We absolutely can. Although So I know that there can be divine intervention if you're going off the path and your child isn't meant for that. Because I've heard mothers tell stories of looking back at low points in their lives, and they felt bad for their kids, and they went back to apologize to their child and say, I'm sorry, I was so sad or unavailable or whatever. And the child goes, I don't even know what you're talking about. This is not something that was in my notice. And then the mom goes, wow, my children are being protected from me. So yes, I want to say my fears had some base, and they forced me to be a better mom. So that was good. But at the same time, I maybe didn't need to worry as much as I was worrying because God was going to protect them as well as protect me from myself, protect them from me. And I wouldn't have known that until later when I was in church hearing this story from this mother.

My kids were, I want to say, low teens at this point. And I was like, Oh, that's interesting, because her children were grown at that point. She was sharing her wisdom to all of us. So it's both. It's both.

Yeah, because those stages when they're young and we know how incapable we can feel or insecure we can feel as moms, sometimes those doubts and things like that. Sometimes I think we overthink that, and we put too much pressure on ourselves thinking that, Oh, my gosh, I'm just going to screw up my kids. But kids are so resilient, and they are protected. I believe that as well. And so if there's a mom out there that is struggling with this, what would you say to them?

What would I have needed to hear? I want to say, too, at that point, because I was so horrified with the fact that I had all these children and had one shot. I would say what I think we all want to say to each other and to ourselves is that in being kinder to yourself, you will be a better person and you will be a better mother. And so instead of beating yourself up or thinking, Well, I really screwed them up this time, skip past berating yourself. Don't even do that step. Skip right to, I messed up, but it's okay. I'm going to try better. Go right to repentance and forgive yourself knowing you're human, and this is what this is all about. You're here to learn things. You're not perfect just because you a parent or just because you entered adulthood. You're like a junior adult at that point. And so it's like you're still learning, too, and you can go on that journey together with your children. You don't have to be perfect to be a great parent.

I love that. Something that I have learned is that where our children are in their development is somewhere where we can always learn from that process. Because if a child is learning to walk and they fall down and they get back up, how many times have you heard somebody in a self-help book or at a talk or something talking about that stage of life where they fall down, they get back up, and you, too, can get back up because you wouldn't get upset with your child when they fall down and they're trying to learn to walk. And yet when we're trying to learn to mother and we fall down, we do. We beat ourselves up. And so looking at our children and saying, okay, what can I learn about mothering from this stage? Is there a stage in your kids' lives where you felt like you learned something about yourself that helped you to be a better mom because of how they were?

Every single one. But I do want to say when they started speaking started talking, they were parroting me. And I could hear the phrases I would say all the time. And I was a little bit, I was funny and cute, but a little bit, it was slightly horrifying. And I realized I maybe didn't have the best self-talk because I would maybe say things out loud like, oh, that was so stupid of me. Why did I even think? And I was saying these things out loud, and I thought, if they're going to think that they could say that or believe that about me, I would be angry, I think. I think I'd be offended and be like, watch yourself there. That's disrespectful. But I'm doing it to myself. So what am I showing them? It's like, hello. But yeah, the learning to talk one was very eye-opening because because they were mocking. Without knowing it, they were mocking me. All right. And even my mother-in-law was like, they sound like you, Kolby. They sound like you. And we laughed. And then I thought, okay, for real now, I need to stop saying these things.

Sure.

We were like, Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, It just feels like they teach you. And that's the humility thing, again, is I had the humility to go, God, I don't know what I'm doing. But I also tried to have the humility to realize that my children had a lot to teach me. And as we're going along learning on the same journey, it's like, oh, I'm listening to things they're saying, and I'm realizing that even though I'm supposed to lead them and I'm supposed to be the leader, if you look up the definition of what a good leader is, a good leader listens to the people they lead, and they leave that window open for correction, improvement, good ideas, great ideas, and ways to change course and do better. And so if we do really want to be good leaders to our children, they need to be heard, too. So they need to have a voice.

I really like that. Because what do you think the end result of that is?

I think that as they become teens and get more responsibility, they actually feel like they're contributing in the world and to society, and then they don't fall into that place where they feel like, Well, nothing I do matters. And that can be a depression. It can be a place where kids can end up going out and doing things that aren't okay because they think they don't matter. But if they've had a voice and a vote in their family all growing up, then they have that confidence to just know that they're valuable, useful, helpful, right? Yeah.

So is there anything Is there anything else that we didn't talk about that you feel like would be helpful or useful or you felt like you wanted to cover in this conversation?

Yes, actually. Even though this is probably a whole other topic, it definitely goes along with this because when we're receiving inspiration from heaven and we're receiving mother's intuition, that's a form of communication. And I feel like communicating with our children... My mothering journey was very like, line upon line. I can look back at it and see how God was spoon feeding me line upon line, what I needed to know to be ready for the next stage in my children's lives and communication with them and with God and teaching them to communicate with God. I just think that's so important, that it's all communication related and based. And so learning good communication in the home is going to foster that later relationship relationship where they're communicating with their spouse, their own kids, and God all along the way, having that connection to heaven and to inspiration and to know he cares about you, he loves you, he's interested in your success in this life. And so let that be your first stop when you need help.

Yeah. To have that while they're growing up and know that they can continue to come and connect is probably a super valuable thing going going forward?

Oh, yes. I've seen it already. It's a relief a bit because when they're home and they're under your stewardship so heavily, it can be overwhelming. But now it just feels very light and free and peaceful. I still worry about them. I still pray for them. But to me, it hasn't been as heavy as when they were home. Yeah.

Of course. Well, that makes sense. Well, I think that this has been really helpful. You've had a lot of experience, especially with having four so quickly and then having one with special needs. And all of that that you've been able to do is an example of that mothering journey in a way that really speaks to becoming. And I can see that through what you've shared and recognizing that we don't show on day one, they throw the baby in your arms or three, and you're like, I got this, right? Let's go. It doesn't happen like that.

Yeah, completely overwhelmed.

For sure.

And it's been fun as you contacted me and as I thought about the questions and as I thought about my mothering journey through this past week has been so much fun and like a trip down memory lane. And it has reaffirmed to me the importance of if you feel like you want to be and should be a mother, go for it. Do it 100 %. It's such an amazing experience to partner with God in this sacred duty. And so it's just been wonderful to prepare and think. And I was thinking, what would help somebody else? But it was more like my brain just kept going back to, what did I love about this? And And that's the part I loved, was partnering with God and doing this with him. Because even when things were really rough, I'd be like, hey, these are your kids. Help me. I don't know. I don't know how to do this. And you know that. And I really did put it on God and said, You knew who you were sending these kids to. You know me. You know them. You can help me. You're the only one that can help me with this.

Yeah, that's awesome. I love that. So in that, if somebody is questioning whether or not they should be a mom, you brought that up, maybe recognizing that that is one of those mothering intuitions is that maybe that's where it starts for them is this pull towards being a mom in the first place and not being afraid of how will they be as a mom and being too afraid to be a mom because they're worried about who they are now because of the journey. So maybe speak to that just a little bit.

Oh, of course. Yeah. It's definitely that whole story of the headlights. Like when you're driving in the night and the headlights only show just that little bit in front of you. But you just keep going because you know that as you get to that next point, the headlights will show that further point again. And you just have to, one step at a time, one foot in front of the other, line upon line, just enjoy this miracle of this child and see how it unfolds because you're never going to be able to predict it. You can never know how you or they are going to be. And so it's just living in the now and enjoying, which is difficult to do when there's a bunch of them, which you would know once you have however many children, it's like you're just go, go, go, go, go. And so to consciously stop and say, oh, my gosh, I'm living it. I'm living this right now. And look at how cute these little kids are and look at how much fun we're having doing this. And look how helpful this one is and look at how smart this one is.

It's just Yeah. Don't forget to enjoy the journey.

Yeah. Thank you so much for taking time today. I really felt like that was something that I wanted to do for this first season was really follow all the promptings that I felt of who to have on these episodes. And so here you are, and for a really good reason. And I love it because most people aren't going to have three kids at once. That's not everybody's norm. What? What do you mean? And so to have made it to the other side, I think that is the beauty of it. Yes.

Because it was very overwhelming. And I'm not going to lie, there were so many days when I was so overwhelmed, I thought, Can I even do this? And so, yes, you have to give yourself grace, and you have to say, I'm not doing this alone. I was truly honored that you asked me, and I just thought, if somebody can learn from a mistake I made, then that mistake was not a mistake after all, and it was not done in vain, and it was for a higher purpose. And it just feels better that way. I can forgive myself.

All right. Any final thoughts? We covered some of that, but is there anything else that you would like to share?

I do want to say with all the heartache that comes along with being a mother and having your heart expand and with so much love you never thought you could feel and then to also be pained, it's still that better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all because the journey is just richer. Doubted, like I was saying before with growing up in the '90s and do I need a career and all this? It's like I doubted how fulfilling it would be. It was so fulfilling. It was 100 % what I needed, what I wanted. I don't regret it at all. And so it's a beautiful thing to be a part of, but it's difficult. So you got to want it. You got to 100 % want it.

Yeah. We appreciate being here. Thank you for your wisdom and insights. I love that. And I'm grateful that we're friends, just having known you from little and being friends for so many years. And it's been really awesome. And so I felt really strongly that this would be a good conversation. I think it was. So thank you so much.

I agree. Thank you for asking me. I appreciate it. I loved this.